Fresh off of winning The Gilmore’s 2026 Larry J. Bell Jazz Artist Award, jazz pianist Sullivan Fortner performs an intimate solo recital at Baruch Performing Arts Center in Manhattan on December 12, 2025.
This is an excerpt from a conversation Fortner had with Mark Ruffin at the Bell Jazz Artist Award ceremony in early October, streamed live from The Greene Space in NYC. Watch the conversation in full here.
Mark Ruffin: Your dad didn’t want you to go into the music business. Tell them about the pact you guys made.
Sullivan Fortner: Well, I graduated as valedictorian from my high school McDonogh 35, which is probably the oldest African American high school in New Orleans, and part of the deal there is if you make it into the top 10 or top 35, you automatically get a full scholarship to any university in New Orleans. So I could have gone to Xavier, Dillard University, University of New Orleans, Loyola, Tulane—all that. Full ride.
I told my dad I wanted to go into music. It was kind of an off-the-whim decision. I was driving home from prom and had a conversation with God. I said, “I’m pretty sure if I were to become a neurologist, I’d probably kill somebody.” [Laughter]
So I said, “Look, okay, if this is what I’m supposed to do, you have to figure out a way to make it work.”
I sent a videotape—on cassette—of me playing The Flintstones theme to Oberlin Conservatory of Music. And to Berklee. Berklee put me on the waiting list. Oberlin gave me a $16,000 scholarship. So I thought, Maybe I should go to Oberlin. Maybe this is my ticket into music.
My dad said, “Absolutely not. You can get a car. I’ll buy you a car. You’ll have stability. There’s no guarantee in music at all. And there’s no one in this family that is going to be able to help you.” I have a couple of cousins that are professional musicians, but for the most part, I’m the only one. So to pursue jazz, which wasn’t even in my household, he said, “You’re on your own with this.”
I told him, “I really feel like this is what I’m supposed to do.” He said, “Well, please, if you’re going to do this, make sure you get a master’s degree. So if all else fails, you can teach a kindergartener how to blow through a recorder.”
That was the conversation I had with my dad in the computer room of our house before I turned in my acceptance letter to Oberlin Conservatory.
Ruffin: Now, you didn’t necessarily come from a music family—although your mom did play some piano playing… gospel stuff?
Fortner: Yeah, my mom. Well my whole family- on my mom’s side particularly- are singers. Now they’ve been branching out a little bit more in a professional field doing background stuff, but for the most part it’s just been gospel music. Singing in church on Sunday mornings with the choir and the praise team. My mom was my first music teacher. She brought me to every single rehearsal and made me sit in the tenor section, even though I wanted to sit next to the organ player.
The choir director, who was also the organist, Miss Betty, said, “No, he’s fine. He’s not bothering me at all.” So I’d sit next to her, and of course I had a crush on her because she smelled like cocoa butter and had great gold hair. You know, she smelled good! When you’re four years old, and you smell good and got treats, you’re in love. That’s all it takes. [Laughter]
But really, the people I always wanted to play for always were my mom and my grandmother. I had no idea this is what I’d be doing. I just wanted to play for my grandma and keep time. That’s all.
Ruffin: But as you grew as a piano player—where did jazz come in? Where did pop and hip hop and everything else you’re listening to come in?
Fortner: Well my dad always had all those old school R&B records. When I was 12 years old my part time job was killing rats and cutting grass at my grandmother’s house. And that drive was probably an hour each way. And he’d play everything. My dad would say “This is the Ojays, this is Stevie Wonder, this is The Spinners.” All the old school 70s and and 80s artists: Babyface, Anita Baker, Chaka Khan, Michael Jackson. My mom was also a fan of R&B, don’t get it wrong, but when she was driving it was mostly Gospel. On our way to school with me and my sisters she’d put on a Gospel song and do ear training tests. “All right Sal (my nickname), what’s the alto line?” And I’d have to sing it. Then she’d ask my sister “what’s the tenor line?” and she’d do the same. And we’d all harmonize, with my mom and two sisters, going through the whole song. So, like I said, she was my first music teacher in that way.
Ruffin: Where did jazz come in?
There was a guy who came to church when I was about 11 or 12. His name was Ronald Markham. He told me I had a lot of talent. After choir rehearsal one day he goes to the organ and starts playing some Bach preludes, and I said “What’s that?!,” and then he plays some jazz, something like Jimmy Smith. I said, “What is that?” He said, “That’s jazz. You need to go to the New Orleans Center for Creative Arts.”
“What do I need to need to do get in?,” I asked.
“Just play the way you play, and apply,”
So I applied in eighth grade. I couldn’t play a C major scale to save my life. The only thing I knew was gospel songs so I auditioned playing Because He Lives. And I got in. First day of school, I walked into the classroom and saw Christian Scott (now Chief Xian aTunde Adjuah), Troy “Trombone Shorty” Andrews… so as I’m learning jazz, I’m surrounded by a community of people that grew up with the music with a certain type of legacy with it. So they took me under their wings, and told me what I needed to listen to. I had a teacher, Peter Martin, who said “OK, this is Herbie Hancock’s theme from Blow Up. Don’t come back next week until you’ve learned it.” And so I learned it.
At first, I hated jazz for the first two years. It was too long, too complicated. Too many solos. This was a waste of time and energy. I just wanted to play the big chords.Then my teacher Clyde Kerr Jr. gave me Concert by the Sea by Erroll Garner. He said, “If you don’t like this, you shouldn’t be a jazz musician.”
It was the first time I experienced music that brought me to tears. And that was it, I’ve been chasing that ever since.
Ruffin: Were classical musicians part of your coming up?
Fortner: Yeah. I had a girlfriend when I was younger who sang opera—she introduced me to people like Puccini and Verdi. Then when I got to Oberlin, going to the surrounded by classical musicians, I’d see the student orchestra and opera productions, and got exposed to Rimsky-Korsakov, Berlioz, Rachmaninoff, Prokofiev.
Once I was practicing Chopin on a concert stage and a classical pianist walked in. She laughed at me and walked out. It definitely inspired me to practice harder.
Ruffin: You’ve collaborated with a lot of folks. You’re on every Lauren Henderson record, and then you have a nice groove with Étienne Charles, and many others.There are some piano players too! I heard you were roommates with pianist Mike King for four years? Is there anybody you would dream to collaborate with?
Fortner: I did a thing this past weekend, with Jason Moran and Kris Davis and George Cabos and David Virelles. It was really really fun to sit inside their sounds and really learn from them. I’d like to do a lot more of that. Gonzalo is top of the list. Kevin Hays, Craig Taborn, Brad Mehldau, Herbie Hancock.
I really miss Barry Harris. That would’ve been incredible, to have him just as a teacher, mentor, and a friend. Ethan Iverson. There are so many. I’ve done some stuff with Fred Hersch, and that’s been fun.
Ruffin: He’s another great collaborator with other pianists.
Fortner: Oh yeah. And I’ve studied with him off and on for about 5-7 years. He was definitely a source of inspiration and wisdom. Sometimes he laid to me straight, and I’d walk home and think “He really just told me I suck, but in the nicest way possible.” [Laughter]
